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Transcriptions of the Brahmananda dasa & Naranarayana dasa Brahmananda: Nama om visnu-padaya krsna-presthaya bhu-tale, srimate bhaktivedanta-svamin iti namine. Namas te sarasvate deve gaura-vani-pracarine, nirvisesa-sunyavadi-pascatya-desa-tarine. So the title of this festival is the Festival of Reunion, not union. The Mayavadis, they have festival of union; but the Vaisnavas, we have reunion, to return back united, again united with Krishna, with Srila Prabhupada. So that is this very apt title. That word union is abhorrent to us. So we should begin at the beginning. Madhudvisa prabhu was speaking this morning. So it is due to him that I had opportunity to serve here in the beginning. So I'll just tell what I know of it. I came in 1971 differently from other devotees. Those devotees came either with Srila Prabhupada…Madhudvisa prabhu came with Srila Prabhupada when Prabhupada left Los Angeles and came by the Pacific, eastern route to Japan and then from Japan to India. But Prabhupada sent me to Pakistan, so I went to Pakistan from America by land route. Of course, in Pakistan there was a war going on between India so it was very difficult to preach there, and then Prabhupada ordered me to come to Bombay. I think I was on the last flight out of Karachi before they closed it. So I came to Bombay, and I had the address of Seksaria's house, Kailash Seksaria. So I went there, but Prabhupada wasn't there. Prabhupada was in the Akash Ganga. So I went to see Srila Prabhupada, and Prabhupada had received word actually…well, it was published in the newspaper, in the Indian newspaper, that four Hare Krishna missionaries had been shot in Pakistan. The Indian newspapers, they picked up the story from the Pakistani newspapers. Prabhupada had sent Gargamuni to east Pakistan, and he had sent me to west Pakistan. Prabhupada wrote us a letter, and we were in Florida at the time. I was at Florida State University in Tallahassee, and Gargamuni was at University of Florida in Gainesville. Prabhupada sent us both separate letters telling us "immediately go." What had happened, why did Prabhupada send us to Pakistan? Prabhupada was challenged here at the pandal, at the Cross Maidan pandal. When Prabhupada would speak, then he would have questions and people from the audience, there were 20,000, 30,000 people, where people could address questions to Prabhupada and Prabhupada would answer. So one man, he got up and he didn't have any question but he challenged Srila Prabhupada that "You come here with all these foreign bhaktas to preach Krishna, but we Indians, we know Krishna. So it's not necessary. We know everything about Krishna, so why you have come here for this? So better you go to Pakistan." This man was Arya-samajist, he didn't like the preaching. So in front of 30,000 people Prabhupada said, "Oh, you are challenging me to go to Pakistan?" And the man said, "Yes, this is done in public. I am challenging you to go to Pakistan." Prabhupada said, "Then we will go." Prabhupada took up the challenge. So just at that time I had sent a letter to Prabhupada from Florida telling him of my activities. We actually had established a center at the university. We got a fraternity house right on the very prominent road, and a big house somehow or other. I wrote to Prabhupada and Prabhupada's reply was, "All right, you are successful in Florida, now be successful in Pakistan." So for us to get this letter, this order to go to Pakistan, oh, this was a great adventure. So we immediately left. Although I had no money and somehow or other I had to go by land, by bus, by train, I had $75 when I left Paris, I flew to Paris, London. I went on the Oriental Express train to Turkey, then from Turkey… When I arrived in Pakistan…I had been arrested in Turkey for doing…we had to do harinama kirtan. We couldn't live without that. So after being on buses and trains for several weeks, I was going crazy not being able to do harinama. So I was in the middle of Turkey and I met actually some American boys, I was getting them to join. So we did harinama in this town, Erzurum, and, oh, we were arrested and thrown in jail. Turkey, you know that movie, "The Midnight Express"? That's the way it was, terrible. They wanted to put me in jail for 14 years for preaching Christianity because I would say Krishna, so they thought I said Christian; and there's a law, you cannot preach Christian. So anyway, I arrived in Pakistan. Now, the thing is Prabhupada sent a second letter telling us not to go to Pakistan because it was so dangerous. Prabhupada learned later about the situation. So he sent a second letter not to go but we had already left, we never got that letter. So you can imagine the danger. You're going to a place where actually the guru doesn't want you to go, you're thinking he wants you to go. So this was the way Prabhupada was taking up the challenge from this man here in Bombay, and Prabhupada was prepared either to go anywhere to preach Krishna consciousness or to send his devotees anywhere to preach Krishna consciousness. Just like in the middle of all the…as Madhudvisa mentioned this morning…in the middle of all the commotion here in Bombay to establish a temple, trying to find a place… Every day there was a parade of people coming to see Srila Prabhupada with offers on buildings and land and this and that because they came to know that Prabhupada was looking to establish. So everyone had some scheme, and most of it was all bogus cheating. Because here it's not like in the West where if you have a land, you want to sell it, you just put up a sign "For Sale" and then you sell it. Here it's very complicated. I read somewhere that in India, actually 80% of all the land in India is under dispute. Have you ever heard of such a thing? In the courts, 80% of all the land in India is under legal dispute, property ownership dispute, and it goes back hundreds of years. Everybody is…and the descendants are all competing. Of course, this gives good employment to the lawyers. So people were coming everywhere. We went to see actually a building that was used for selling automobiles, Ambassador cars, it was a showroom for the Ambassador cars. It was on a roundabout in Bombay. Prabhupada was considering that. And then Malabar Hill, different places. Our procedure for establishing temples was to buy a building, like in America and all over the world, you get a church or empty building and then we convert it into a temple. But in Bombay there was no large building vacant for sale, it just didn't exist. But this automobile showroom, that was the most promising because it had a large open floor space on the first floor. So that was given serious consideration. But to construct, it was not in our experience, we had no idea of constructing a temple. So it soon became apparent that we are not going to find a building in Bombay to establish a temple and that we would have to construct. So then you have to find land. Then it came upon this land here in Juhu, but there was so much opposition. All of our members, they lived on Marine Drive, we would have our programs there; and when they heard that Prabhupada was considering this land here in Juhu, they actually sent a delegation to convince Prabhupada not to do this because Juhu at that time was beyond the suburbs. It was a place where no one went to. Actually it was the private enclave of the movie stars, for them to have complete seclusion. This is why the movie stars lived here, because they wanted seclusion, to be cut off from the mass of people. So no one came to Juhu. It was a place where no one came to. So all the members, they all came to Prabhupada in a delegation, they said, "We will never go to Juhu." But Prabhupada had a different vision. He was not swayed by that. Even these were our only supporters and very influential, wealthy people and if we were going to build a temple we would go to these people to help us, right from the very beginning they didn't want it to happen. But Prabhupada was determined. So then Prabhupada met Mr. Nair and made the sale agreement. Whatever Prabhupada proposed, of course, Mr. Nair agreed to because Mr. Nair, he had a scheme which had been running for many years that he had this big land, he would sell it. The way he would sell it, he would just make a sale agreement and then the buyer pays a down payment, and then Mr. Nair would keep the down payment and then sell it to another person and never fulfill the conveyance. And he had done this with almost a dozen different buyers. Then, of course, when it didn't go to conveyance, then you had to go to court to sue him; and then he would just fight it out in the court for years and years and years. And, of course, Indian court system is a little different than the rest of the world, things go on and on and on. You pay a little bit here, a little bit there, and that's how you win. So this is what Mr. Nair, his program was. So he would offer the land at a very nominal, attractive price just to bring in people, take their deposit, and then fight it in the court. And what to speak, when Prabhupada approached him, he saw, "Oh, this sadhu, he will be very…sadhus, all they know is their mantras. They're not going to fight in the legal system." So he thought Prabhupada was very easy and "I'll just take his money, whatever he has." And, of course, Prabhupada was bargaining, so I think Prabhupada maybe paid 10% or 15% of the sale price as a down payment and then you get the sale agreement. Mr. Nair agreed, "Yes, I'll take your money, no problem." But he didn't know who Srila Prabhupada was. Anyway, Madhudvisa prabhu was the temple president. He's the emperor of sankirtan. He's not the manager of a hotel, as he said today. So when they went to the lawyers to sign the papers, as I understood it, it was at the lawyer's office when the papers were given to Madhudvisa… Madhudvisa went with Prabhupada, and so Prabhupada would sign and Madhudvisa was signing as the temple president. So Madhudvisa could not sign. He said, "Prabhupada, I cannot do this." Prabhupada had a scheme, he was talking huge project, something which was completely out of our experience, and we also couldn't really accept such a thing. Actually what we wanted, we were very simple, we just wanted to chant Hare Krishna, take Krishna prasadam, distribute some books. This was how we joined, this is what we did. So at the lawyer's office, he refused. Now, you can imagine, Prabhupada was shocked that here is his right-hand man and he refuses. So then what does Prabhupada do? So all right, Prabhupada then, "Bring another one." So just at that time I was writing to Srila Prabhupada. I had heard about the pandal here in Bombay. Syamasundara this morning must have told you about the Cross Maidan pandal which he arranged. Syamasundara, I know he did with the balloon and so many things. So I had heard about this. So we thought in…I was in Nairobi. I should say when I came to Bombay from Pakistan, as soon as I arrived, of course, Prabhupada greeted me very warmly. It was like we came back from the dead. Prabhupada thought we were dead, it was in the newspaper. Naranarayana: So who had died? Brahmananda: Nobody, it was propaganda. The Pakistanis wanted to show the Indians that "We know that you're sending your spies here, and we know that they are in east Pakistan and they are in west Pakistan and at any time we will eliminate them." And actually my life was threatened, Gargamuni too. Gargamuni, they took a rifle and put it in his mouth. Myself, they said I'll get a knife in the…while walking, someone will come up to me and put a knife in my back. I'll never see it, you'll never know it, and this is how we'll deal with you. Then we knew it was time to leave. So then when I came to Bombay, some of the devotees didn't want…there was one in particular, Hansadutta, he didn't want me to be in Bombay. So he went to Prabhupada and said, "We should send Brahmananda somewhere. Send him anywhere, Africa, anywhere." Prabhupada said, "Oh, Africa." Actually invitations were coming from Kenya but they were being sent to Gurudasa in London, and then Gurudasa was forwarding them to Prabhupada here in Bombay. So then Prabhupada called me in and said, "All right, now you go to Africa." After being in Turkey and Pakistan, now… [break]. It was very inspiring. He said, "If you go to Africa, then we will be on all the six continents." How I could refuse that? I would not go and then we'd only be on five continents? I would be responsible that we're only being on five continents? So I had to agree. Prabhupada gave you an offer you could not refuse. So I was in Nairobi, so I heard about the pandal here. So I thought of a way, the way we will get Prabhupada to come to Kenya was to make a pandal in Nairobi. So we organized this pandal and then I wrote to Prabhupada, and Prabhupada didn't want to leave Bombay. So he made it very difficult. He said, "You want me to come to your pandal. I'll only come if you arrange for me to meet the president of Kenya, Mr. Kenyatta." Well, I tried for that. Actually I met his right-hand man, which is the Minister for State. I got that far but we couldn't arrange, because actually the way you meet the president, you have to give a little gift. So I didn't know how to do that, neither we had anything. So it wasn't working out, and we arranged this pandal. Prabhupada wanted us to preach to the Africans, but all our support was coming from the Indians. So how do you arrange a pandal? And the Indians and the Africans don't mix. So who do you make the pandal for, for the Africans? Then you have to go to an African area. Because the way they arrange it there is there is the African area, Indian area, European area, like that. Everyone is happy, but it's separation. Or do you make the pandal for the Indians? Then you have to be in the Indian area. So we decided to make it in the African area. So Prabhupada wasn't going to come because I couldn't arrange the president. Then all of a sudden we get the message, Prabhupada said, "I'm coming to your pandal." But he wasn't coming to the pandal to be in the pandal. He was coming for another reason, because Madhudvisa didn't want to do this project so Prabhupada thought, "Well, let me bring in Brahmananda to do." So Prabhupada came to the pandal. I'm not and I never was a very good organizer, so the pandal I arranged was a total failure. Nobody came. I think 50 people came. We had rented a football stadium and we arranged, because they didn't have pandals in Kenya at that time. There was no tents like this and so on. So we arranged a football stadium, and the football stadium was far away and how do you get people to come to a football stadium when there's no football game? Everything failed. And we made this stage and we didn't have Naranarayana, so it was improperly constructed, half of it was falling down. It was total disaster. But Prabhupada was very happy to be there because he had some other plan. One day he came into my room. We had a little house, and he walked into my room. He didn't call me to his room, he came into my room, which Prabhupada never did that. He would always stay in his room. He came into my room, and I was shocked. He came in and he sat down on the bed and he just started talking to me and telling me about Bombay, that we're getting this land and it's by the beach, the most prominent beach, everyone comes there for walking, and we're going to build a skyscraper, a hotel, a temple and auditorium and so many things we're going to do. And our Madhudvisa, he could not do it, so we want you to do it. So my only qualification is whatever Prabhupada asked, I would always say yes. Even I couldn't do it, but I would say yes. So I said, "Oh, yes, Srila Prabhupada." But Prabhupada inspired us with this vision of this project, something unknown to us in our Krishna conscious experience. So actually, the first thing I did…you want to know why the towers are round here? It's very unusual to have a round building; and that's because in Nairobi the most prominent building is the Hilton Hotel, if anyone has been to Nairobi, and it's a round building. So we had this idea that this is the most…it's a famous building, that a round would be very unusual, very attractive. So we got this idea to make a round…that's why the towers are round, they're not square. Ordinarily they should be rectangular. We made that design round to give attractive. But it's difficult to construct with the plumbing and the electrical and the whole thing, to make a round, it's very difficult. But that was inspired from the Hilton Hotel in Nairobi, that's how that happened. Then after I agreed to come to Bombay, then Prabhupada left. Actually he didn't care anything for the pandal. The thing was a total disaster, Prabhupada never said anything. Can you imagine Prabhupada coming all the way to Nairobi, going to a pandal, only 50 people come. Prabhupada said, "Oh, very good, you arranged nicely." So then I came to Bombay. I arrived in Bombay, that was in 1972, it was March. Then there was the first Gaura Purnima Festival in Mayapur. Prabhupada simultaneously was doing Bombay, he was doing Mayapur, and he was doing Vrindavan. It's incredible and amazing how Prabhupada did this. So I went to Mayapur for the festival. Srimate, you were there? Kausalya was there. So I went to the festival, and then I went to Prabhupada and Prabhupada said, "What are you doing here?" I said, "Well, I've come for the festival. This is the first festival, chanting and dancing, prasadam." Prabhupada said, "No, I have sent you to Bombay. You should be in Bombay." I said, "But all the devotees are here, Lord Caitanya…" Prabhupada had just gotten this land, Prabhupada had a big scheme there, and Prabhupada said, "No, I have sent you to Bombay. You must be in Bombay. Immediately get out." So I had to go. I couldn't participate in the festival. But Prabhupada knew that I always worked good with another man. I always had in New York, I had my…there was Rishi Kumar, there was Purusottama, Gargamuni. So Prabhupada said, "You go with Naranarayana. Immediately go." I said, "Yes, Prabhupada, OK, we'll go." He said, "Go." I said, "Yes." "Go, now!" And then I had to leave. All the devotees were coming, I had to go. So Naranarayana and myself, we came to Bombay. And this land here, actually it was a jungle, totally overgrown, thicket jungle; and as Madhudvisa explained, people came here just for one purpose. Naranarayana: Yeah, we heard about that. Brahmananda: We also participated. It was very nice. So Naranarayana and myself, we came, and there was this jungle. How did we meet Mr. Sethi? Naranarayana: Well, that came a little bit later, didn't it, because we had already set up there at the Acaryas' house, which is there. And Mr. Sethi came and started meeting Prabhupada. Brahmananda: Mr. Acarya, he was the only sympathetic tenant here. He was RSS? He was a pilot for Air India. Naranarayana: The upstairs Acarya. Sridhar Swami: The upstairs and downstairs, they were both two brothers. Naranarayana: Acarya, one upstairs and one downstairs. But we had to clear the land. Brahmananda: We had to clear the land. That was the first order. Naranarayana: So I went to Villa Parle and I checked out the labor market and they said, "We'll clear the land, but you have to supply the powra and the gamela." Brahmananda: Wait a minute, what's powra, what's gamela? Naranarayana: I didn't know either. "Powra to the people," you know? So I didn't know what is a powra or gamela, but I came back to Srila Prabhupada and said, "They won't work unless they have a powra and a gamela." Prabhupada looked at me and he said, "That is reasonable." I still didn't know what was a powra or a gamela. Brahmananda: Well, tell us. Naranarayana: I found out gradually. So I went down to Bhuleshvar, I had to buy powras and…they know what is a powra and gamela. I had to go to Bhuleshvar and I came back on the train loaded with powras and gamelas and I thought, "This is amazing, we just spent 50 rupees, what's going to happen next?" So we went down and we hired the men, they came out, they were very happy with the selection of powras and…oh, the gamela is a thing that looks like a wok and you use it to carry the dirt on the head, and the powra is well-named as a mattock or a hoe for chopping at the dirt. So they came and they just…it was astonishing. Within a very short time, all of the brush, everything, the jungle was gone, and all the little ingredients ended up in that lake over there. Go ahead. Brahmananda: I remember with Mr. Sethi, I remember we took the machetes and ourselves we were cutting down the jungle. Naranarayana: That's because we were Americans. Just give us the machete, we go after the jungle. That's why we don't have any jungles left. Brahmananda: But Mr. Sethi, he came also personally, he was doing, because he saw it also as devotional service. Not that he just had his workers come and do it and paid it, but he personally participated. And we cut down the jungle, that was our first… Prabhupada gave us the order, what he wanted, he said, "You have to occupy the land." The thing is, we did not have possession of the land. We had a sale agreement but not possession. Naranarayana: And an option payment, but we had no right to occupy. Brahmananda: We could occupy but we couldn't build anything, we couldn't construct anything, we couldn't construct a building. How can you live on land without a building? We could live there, but we couldn't have a building. That was actually the legal arrangement. The courts gave us permission to occupy but not to build. So I said, "Prabhupada, what do we do? How do we live in a place where there's no building? How are we going to do it?" So Prabhupada said, "You make a pandal. That you can always make, pandal, you don't need…this is not a construction." But Prabhupada said, "You make permanent pandal." No one had ever heard of a permanent pandal. So permanent pandal means that instead of made of cloth, it's made of the tin sheeting. And we made a big elaborate pandal here in the front of the…all made of tin sheets. And then Prabhupada said, "And then we'll live in these…" what they were, tin hutments or whatever you want to call it. Naranarayana: Prabhu, the juiciest part is yet to come. Why don't we do it tomorrow morning? Brahmananda: Good idea. Naranarayana: You and me. Brahmananda: You agree? Sridhar Swami: I agree. |